tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7950335778252661172024-02-09T03:51:16.189+11:00Only more soInformation and views on polyamory as espoused by Rebecca and James, a married couple who are polyarmorists.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-1627951856021792802011-08-31T19:21:00.000+10:002011-08-31T19:23:08.842+10:00Polyamory - you're probably doing it right<p>As I've said in earlier <a _mce_href="http://blogs.bluebec.com/sometimes-it-is-just-about-sex/" href="http://blogs.bluebec.com/sometimes-it-is-just-about-sex/">posts</a>, there isn't one best way to do or be something. There are a multitude of ways, and nowhere have I encountered this more evidently than when discussing and reading about polyamory. What works for me is quite likely to disastrously not work for someone else. What works for someone else, really isn't the thing for me. There is a wide range of ways that relationships work (friendships, romantic attachments, one-night stands, family, soul-mates, etc). And as there is that wide range of relationships and different ways of them working, there is a wide range of ways to make polyamory work.</p><p>I could sit down and <a _mce_href="http://www.scarletletters.com/current/021403_nf_rk.html" href="http://www.scarletletters.com/current/021403_nf_rk.html">take apart an article</a> my sister gave me the link to discussing polyamory, how what is mentioned in the article doesn't work for me, how I understand where the author is coming from, and yet the levels of formality and hierarchy would just upset me, but it's far easier for me to say to myself, this is what worked for them, and like most things in life will change and grow with them for as long as it's useful. (that sentence is nice and long, but anyway)</p><p>Even things mentioned in <a _mce_href="http://www.hares-hyenas.com.au/book.asp?RecID=6156" href="http://www.hares-hyenas.com.au/book.asp?RecID=6156">The Ethical Slut</a>, a book many people consider to be the bible of polyamory, aren't necessarily the only way to do polyamory. These things are all suggestions, some useful, some far less so. If your version of polyamory is working for you and your partner/s, and someone else is screwing their nose up at the way you're living your life and relationships, then that's their problem and not yours. </p><p>Take what I and others who write and talk about polyamory with a grain of salt, think on it as useful information, but stuff that doesn't necessarily apply to your situation. It's great if it does, and it's great if something I share or say makes a difference, but no one is under any obligation to try and fit their unique situation into a copy of my (or anyone else's) situation. Doing that is unlikely to lead to anyone else's happiness.</p><p>[Cross posted at: <a href="http://blogs.bluebec.com/polyamory-youre-probably-doing-it-right/">bluebec.com</a>]
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<br /></p>Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-92014188039919031152011-01-20T22:16:00.002+11:002011-01-20T22:21:53.679+11:00While I'm here...I just dropped into the blog to find a post I'd written a while ago, and thought I'd give everyone who reads this a quick update as to what is going on. <br /><br />My life rocks... I am incredibly happy and have almost everything I could possibly want (except one million dollars). I've built a house with my husbands and my husband's boyfriend so there are 4 of us living together in nice harmony. Our other relationships outside the house are going well.<br /><br />I will, at some point in the near future, be moving this blog over to my actual domain. I have a blog (on feminism, politics, religion and other stuff) there <a href="http://blogs.bluebec.com/">already</a>. When I move this (and the posts), I'll post an announcement. Hopefully it'll be soon, but that's all dependent on time, energy and not being distracted by shiny things.<br /><br />I also plan to post on poly authorities (just a quick glimpse - there aren't any), on what poly has taught me over the years, and any other suggestions that people might like me to post on.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-17178972326956291692010-08-13T08:30:00.002+10:002010-08-13T08:31:52.968+10:00A culture of silenceI’ve found yet another culture of silence I just don’t understand. This one has nothing to do with physical violence against others, nothing to do with racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic behaviour, and nothing to do with rape apology. This is all to do with gossip and rumours… which really thrive in a culture of silence.<br /><br />Some context would probably be useful here. I’m a member of a community that is relatively close-knit and some would say incestuous… but it is full of people who are polyamorous, so that second label is understandable. Given the interlinked relationships, friendships and the like there is a certain amount of disclosure about people, but it is usually safe, sane and truthful. It is useful, after all, to know your partner’s partner’s STI status, who else they are involved with, etc. Honesty is valued in poly relationships because it is just impossible to trust a group of people (tribes is the terminology I tend to use) without being very honest with them and having them be very honest with you.<br /><br />So when someone joined this community, and spent some time in it, started talking about negative experiences with others, given the constant reinforcement of honesty as a necessary part of polyamory, we trusted that she was at least telling as close as she could to her version of the truth – so it may have been hurt or anger with someone, but she was being honest at the core.<br /><br />And we did not talk to those she said bad things about. I think this is a common thing regardless of the community you are in. Typically gossip is passed on to others and not the victim, which sadly means that the victim can be ostracised, isolated or subject to other forms negative of behaviour because something which may be untrue or taken out of context is believed by others and the victim is not given a chance to defend themselves, or if they are, it is usually far too late.<br /><br />So why don’t we talk to the person the gossip or bad-mouthing is about? Sometimes I think it’s because you want to believe what the other person who is gossiping to you to be true. There were some things that were told to me by the aforementioned person which I could have believed to be true, whether that was because there was a grain of truth in them or because I was already biased against the person being gossiped about. Sometimes I think it is because you instantly dismiss what the gossiper is saying because you don’t think it is true or you don’t care one way or the other. The aforementioned person told me some things about people I was friends with which either did not fit my knowledge of that individual or were completely irrelevant to me.<br /><br />It was only as we began as a wider group to start unravelling the lies that were told to us and found out the lies that were told about us that we realised the harm that this one individual had caused to our wider circle and community. We have since cut all ties with her and I am of the understanding that she has now left the community, but that still does not solve the main problem… that of the culture of silence.<br /><br />Maybe it’s an Australian thing to not disclose negative and hurtful information that you overhear to the person/s that it is allegedly about. Maybe there are other places in the world that handle this openly and far better. I’m going to try and find some way to deal with gossip I overhear by approaching the victim and effectively tattling on the gossiper. Though it can be hard when you don’t know whether something is true or not to start with… If my partner’s partner tells me that their new partner does/has/wants X, do I go and talk to them and tell them what I was told? Where can I draw the line?<br /><br />It is a very tricky thing to deal with, which is why I suspect I don’t ever deal with it well until it is too late, or when things are bad. I don’t know what would have happened if I had confronted the gossiper (and outright liar) that has most recently harmed my tribe, earlier in the piece. I suspect I would have been turned upon and maliciously attacked to others.<br /><br />Some of the people who thought that they were going to be able to stay out of this have discovered that things were even said about them, things that were untrue that I dismissed as either irrelevant or unlikely to be true, and it wasn’t until we were debriefing about the situation that I passed those things on. One friend was deeply shocked to have had lies told about her – even though in my estimation those lies were so irrelevant and meaningless. Another friend who had had lies told about him did not seem to be bothered, even though the lies told about him seemed to be more serious than the other friend’s.<br /><br />Debriefing has been incredibly useful but there is still serious damage that has been done. Several members of my tribe are afraid that their ability to judge people is skewed, and their ability to trust has temporarily taken a beating. There is a lot of anger and feelings of betrayal. And of course the big question, “Why would someone do this?”<br /><br />This post has been cross-posted to my other blog: <a href="http://blogs.bluebec.com/a-culture-of-silence/">Bluebec.com</a>Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-16088583723251694472010-07-24T17:53:00.002+10:002010-07-24T21:54:57.523+10:00The power of veto (or Pandora's Box)<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.megacoolstuff.com/pressurewarning/ContentsUnderPressure200.jpg"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 200px; height: 166px;" src="http://www.megacoolstuff.com/pressurewarning/ContentsUnderPressure200.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br />Most people know the story of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora">Pandora's Box</a> (and lets leave aside the fact that its another mythology where a woman brought evil into the world) and how once opened the contents could not be returned.<br /><br />Polyamory can be like that. Many couples give each other veto power over relationships or the poly experience, I know I did with James when we first started polyamory. We agreed that we'd be able to veto each other's prospective partners if one of us saw an issue. However, one a relationship is opened to polyamory it is very hard to put the contents of that box back inside without resentment and the original relationship coming under threat.<br /><br />In the end, the veto power really should just be a security blanket. It should never be used because once you've let yourself and your partner start experiencing other things, you cannot return to the status quo because that has forever changed. This is one of the scary things about polyamory and at the same time one of the best things. Learning more about yourself and your partner and growing are good things. Finding new people to be involved with is both a challenge and a rewarding experience. There are positives and negatives about new relationships, just as they are when you are monogamous. People generally do not give up on monogamy because they have a bad relationship experience, but some will want to give up on polyamory for the same reason.<br /><br />I know how hard it is to watch your partner start a relationship with someone else, or know that they are falling in love with someone else, or that they are having sex with someone else. I've been there and lived through the insecurity. If your relationship is strong and built on good foundations and you both are committed to each other then polyamory will most likely not damage your existing relationship. The insecurity is a bitch, but I came out on the other side a much stronger and centred person than who went in.<br /><br />So, if you and your partner have opened your relationship up to polyamory can you shut it down again? Certainly not easily. Really it should be a decision that both of you make, the same way that opening up your relationship should be a joint decision and not the decision of one party. One party exercising a veto over polyamory or a relationship is very likely to cause resentment from the other. I certainly hate being told what to do versus negotiating and discussing an issue together fully as if I am an equal partner in the relationship.<br /><br />Personally, I'd be more afraid of that resentment from a partner over the fear that my partner might find someone better than me, which is just my insecurity and far easier to solve than a partner resenting a decision I've taken over their life.<br /><br />If you are struggling with polyamory TALK to your partner about your issues and/or talk to someone else about it. Reacting by shutting everything down and attempting to regain the status quo is never going to work.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-34300389971986932672010-05-29T15:19:00.002+10:002010-05-29T15:22:35.199+10:00Things to do to fuck up polyamoryThis post is directly related to my earlier post about things to consider before entering polyamory, specifically those things which should stop you from being poly until you’ve sorted them out. This post is about how to fuck up polyamory while being actively poly. It borrows lightly (because I haven’t read it in some years) from The Ethical Slut and again is a mix of personal experience and conversations with friends and others who are poly.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Be dishonest</span><br /><br />Dishonesty, both that of omission (not telling someone something that they should be informed of) and that of outright dishonesty destroys trust quickly in a relationship. This isn’t rocket science, but people still do it. And of course, this also doesn’t apply to the person you are in a partnership (of whatever sort) with. This applies to relationships in general, so the relationship you have with your partner’s partner/s or even your partner’s partner’s partner all require you to be honest – because oddly enough people talk. And once people start comparing notes about others (we’re a social species, its what we do), any dishonesty you have engaged in is likely to be found.<br /><br />So don’t lie to people about your expectations, hopes, dreams, what you did last night, how you feel about X, how interested you are in Y, fears, insecurities or any other relevant information. In polyamory especially it will be found out, even if not immediately, and then it can cause all sorts of problems for you later on.<br /><br />Some examples to support all this (names changed to protect privacy):<br /><br />Giselle told George that she didn’t have any expectations of their relationship other than friends who occasionally had sex together. Giselle later told Jane that she was upset that George had told her that all he wanted to be was friends who had sex together and that she felt that George had led her on. Jane repeated this information to George who was confused and upset because Giselle had told him that everything was fine and now George doesn’t know what to do or say to Giselle.<br /><br />Mark told Mary that he was interested in June and nothing more. Mary found out later that when Mark told her this that he was actually in love with June and had failed to inform her of this. Mary was upset and wonders how much else Mark has kept from her and whether or not she can trust him to be honest.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Be inconsistent</span><br /><br />I know that polyamory is not an easy lifestyle to choose (I’ll just side-step the debate as to whether it is a choice or an inbuilt thing for now), but one of the things that made it easy for me was stability (once we take my initial insecurity out of the equation). James did not go hot and cold on the idea of polyamory which meant that I was never sure whether I was going to be poly or not.<br /><br />Consistency in how you relate to people, your decisions (with the freedom to change your mind and communicating that effectively to those concerned) and communication makes it easier for people to trust you. If you act like a bit of a wild-card then people will take longer to trust you because they won’t know which way you are likely to go. People like consistency, not just in polyamory but in the wider world. If you are being, or feel you are being, inconsistent and you have reasons for this, then explain them to the people who you feel are being affected by it so that they are likely to cut you some slack.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Fail to communicate</span><br /><br />There is reason that “Communicate, Communicate, Communicate” is the poly mantra. Relationships work well with a certain level of communication. If that communication is poor, then the relationship suffers. When you add extra people to an intimate relationship, then the need for communication increases. You have to be able to communicate your boundaries, desires, fears and wants. You need to be able to safely negotiate with existing and new relationships about how they’re going to work, how much time you have, what you are offering and be able to hear and listen to the concerns of current and potential partners.<br /><br />Communication is not only about speaking, but listening, considering and providing feedback to the people you are communicating with. In polyamory you have a wider group of people to communicate with. I’ve written before about why it is important to form at least a respectful acquaintance-ship with your partner’s partners, if not become friends with them. You need to be able to talk and listen to deep emotional stuff and if this is not your thing, then polyamory isn’t going to work for you.<br /><br />If you fail to communicate with your partners and your partner’s partners there is a strong chance that polyamory won’t work for you. If you don’t like talking about emotions, or don’t see the need to talk about emotions, then you’ll fuck this up. The people you are in relationships with are important, they have a right to be heard, as much as you have a right to be heard.<br /><br />If you actions are impacting on the relationships your partner is attempting to have, then they have a right to negotiate with you about that and discuss that with you through to a logical conclusion (this may take a while), and during that while the potential or actual partners your partner has, have a right to know what is going on.<br /><br />Communication needs to be open, flowing and current for polyamory to work well.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Play “games” with people</span><br /><br />Linked to dishonesty and communication, playing people off against each other is a really good way to fuck up polyamory. Playing games with people sucks for the people being toyed with and it’s a form of emotional manipulation and dishonesty. I’m not going to embellish here further other than to say that whenever I notice people try to do this to me, I instantly want to hit them.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Breach boundaries</span><br /><br />When you make an agreement with your partner/s that you will or will not do something, then it’s really important that you stick to those agreements. You’ve hopefully negotiated those agreements in good faith, and your partner/s trust you to abide by them. A perfect way to seriously harm the trust your partner/s have in you is to agree to boundaries and then completely ignore them later because it is convenient. Don’t do this, ever. If you want to be a good poly person, stick to the agreements you’ve made. If you know you can’t stick to those agreements, then don’t make them to start with and continue negotiating (even if it is the next day) with you partner/s until you find something that you both agree on and that you both feel safe with.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Break promises</span><br /><br />It is not ok to brake agreements in the heat of the moment. Just because the person you’ve been chatting with all evening is really hot, if you agreed to go and sleep with your partner, then you organise to catch up with said hot person later and you go home and sleep with your partner.<br /><br />The biggest limitation in polyamory is time, and that leads into ensuring that you spend sufficient time with your existing partner/s before picking up others - unless you have an agreement with your existing partner/s about when you can pick up new ones.<br /><br />If you make promises of any sort, and you can’t later fulfil them, then you need to communicate that immediately to your partner, and they have to be cool with it. Riding over their feelings because you’ve just met this really hot person is not cool.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Summary</span><br /><br />There are plenty of ways you can fuck up polyamory for yourself and for those you care about. I’ve met plenty of people who’ve had their fingers burnt by people who approached polyamory entirely the wrong way. Of course, as always you are a free agent to do what you will, just remember that more people watch when you're poly, because the ripples spread a lot further.<br /><br />Some more resources are at:<br /><br />http://www.faqs.org/faqs/polyamory/faq-supplement/<br /><br />http://www.xeromag.com/making_relationships_suck.pdfRebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-34364580195915866032010-05-16T13:04:00.002+10:002010-05-16T15:45:11.381+10:00When you shouldn't be polyI've written a bit about polyamory, but there are times, in my opinion, when you shouldn't jump into polyamory without sitting down and figuring a few things out. Polyamory is not a simple lifestyle, there is a lot to communicate with people, a lot of negotiation to do with new and existing partners, a lot of self development, decisions to make about who you do and don't tell about your lifestyle (given the societal pressure to be monogamous), feelings of jealousy, insecurity and envy to negotiate when your partner/s find new partners, and consideration of what your own boundaries are and how you will deal with them in new relationships.<br /><br />Polyamory certainly isn't simple, no matter how much people like me make it appear so. I can only make polyamory appear simple because I have spent a lot of time (approximately 2 years) negotiating, communicating, trust building, learning about myself and others, finding security, learning to let go and stop attempting to control, and learning what I want from my relationships. These were not easy lessons, some were filled with months of angst and tears... the overall journey was worth it though and I and my important relationships survived it.<br /><br />This post then, is more focused on stories I've heard directly from people who have struggled with polyamory, who have been surprised at how hard poly actually is. No one will be mentioned and everything is generalised because I've heard these stories more than once before. It is not a case of X said this and then Y said that... but more X and Y and Z have all said the same thing.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Taking your existing relationship for granted</span><br />This is a tricky one to actually spot, but it is very important that you consider this before you change your relationship agreements, even if your partner is fully supportive of the relationship changing. Basically, taking someone (or something) for granted means, "to expect someone or something to be always available to serve in some way without thanks or recognition; to value someone or something too lightly" (thanks to the <a href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/taking+for+granted">Free Dictionary</a>). We all take things for granted, in the Western world, our access to electricity, clean water, etc. Taking people for granted (such as parents and siblings) isn't so good - because everyone deserves thanks and recognition for being a part of your life. This holds true for existing relationships too. It is very easy to fall into taking a long-term partner for granted. They're always there, they understand you and put up with your foibles. <br /><br />Taking your existing relationship for granted when you change the structure of it tends to be a path to a whole lot of angst and misery. I've blogged before about <a href="http://only-more-so.blogspot.com/2009/04/love-part-2.html">falling in love with an idea of a person versus the reality of them</a>, and that is far easier, I suspect, in monogamy than polyamory. This also makes it easier to take someone for granted, because they're there. They don't change, you think you know them and everything fits together.<br /><br />The person who is being taken for granted is far more likely to be resentful of this behaviour and want things to change. I have watched this cause quite a few problems in relationships over the years. It has often come as a surprise as well to the person taking the other for granted that their partner is resentful of this behaviour. This type of behaviour and polyamory is incompatible becausewhen you are juggling multiple relationships, taking one for granted and devoting all your energy to the other is more likely to fatally fracture the former relationship as the person being taken for granted resents this behaviour. It become very evident to the person being taken for granted that they are when they compare their relationship with the other.<br /><br />So, before you decide to launch into polyamory, think about whether or not you are taking those in your life already for granted, and if so, how you are going to change this before you try and be poly.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Trust issues</span><br />Polyamory is about trust as much as it is about other things. If you have issues trusting your partner or trusting others, then I'd strongly suggest working on those trust issues before you enter polyamory. A lack of trust often leads to an attempt to control, whether it be controlling a situation or controlling someone else. <br /><br />This is not to be confused with boundary setting for safety, but if you don't trust that your partner will keep those boundaries due to your own issues or because they have broken trust before, then you seriously need to work together or alone on those trust issues. If you don't, then polyamory will be more likely a world of pain than the joy it can be.<br /><br />Trust is essential to successfully being polyamory, and knowing who to trust, when to trust and what boundaries need to be set is something that makes polyamory so much easier.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Communication</span><br />If you do not enjoy spending time talking to people about important issues and cannot sit through difficult but important conversations, then polyamory may not be for you. Polyamory is about communication, communication with existing and new relationships about boundaries, emotions, safety, history and fun things. It is vital that you are able to sit down and listen to your partner and hear what they are saying, even if it is painful to you personally.<br /><br />I have watched so many poly people struggle with effective communication with their partners. Where they wanted to be able to talk but were afraid that they wouldn't be heard by their partner or where they didn't want to hear what their partners were saying because they didn't know how to respond. <br /><br />Communication, especially in the early days of polyamory is fraught because there is a lot to talk about, but those who are most successful at polyamory take their time to work through difficult issues, listen and speak as required.<br /><br />Successful communication feeds directly into successful negotiation between partners about boundaries, what poly means to each and how polyamory will be navigated between each. It also feeds directly into having your needs met by your partners and being able to state what those needs are.<br /><br />Being willing to communicate also helps with easing into relationships with your partner's partners. Being able to communicate successfully with your partner's partners means that you can build a relationship with them and help support each other and your mutual partner. It also helps you realise that they are just as human as you are.<br /><br />If you don't like deep and meaningfuls... then it may be that polyamory is not for you.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Honesty</span><br />If you are not comfortable with other people's honesty or being honest yourself regarding your past sexual history, your feelings, past issues or anything that may impact on your relationships with others, then I would suggest again that polyamory is not for you, or not for you until you have sorted the issues out that make you uncomfortable with honesty.<br /><br />Because without honesty, polyamory falls apart. It may be easy to keep dishonesty straight with one person, but when you start adding more people to the mix, it gets harder and harder. This also applies to people who don't like sharing information about themselves with others - a form of dishonesty. <br /><br />A lack of honesty also makes it hard for others to help you when you may need it, and attempting to control information about yourself to those who you are in a relationship with, also smacks of a lack of trust and a need to control.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-56810550241138040072009-10-02T19:35:00.004+10:002009-10-02T22:40:05.593+10:00Ultimatums... are they ever good?This question came up on a poly email list that I am a member of recently, and I thought I'd share my own stories about it as well as general discussion about it. I posted a link from "Ask Richard" recently that also has some good comments regarding ultimatums, so have a read of that also.<br /><br />Anyway, ultimatums...<br /><br />Early on in my life, when I was starting relationships with other people, I ended up in a relationship with two different boys. One of them gave me the classic ultimatum, "choose". I didn't like it then, but felt obliged to because no one at all had multiple partners... I ended up choosing the guy who issued the ultimatum, which in the end wasn't the wisest decision I had made.<br /><br />Many years, and in a different relationship, later I issued an ultimatum. I told my partner, who had been suffering clinical depression for 9 years, that he had to now get help/treatment or I'd leave. I was beyond my ability to cope with the depression any longer and couldn't do it on my own any more, as I had been. It was at this point where I knew that if my partner didn't get help I genuinely would leave the relationship for my own sanity and well being. I wasn't making an idle threat, I was being honest about the state of affairs as far as I was concerned, and I had made mental plans about what to do if my partner didn't seek treatment.<br /><br />So my ultimatum was more a statement of facts about how I felt at that time. Thankfully he went and sought treatment and we're still together. He realised that I was telling him how the world was shaped for me at that time, and knew that his options were to seek treatment (which he knew he needed) or say goodbye to me.<br /><br />I personally hate issuing ultimatums. I don't want to have to force people to choose one course of action over another or one person over another. They really are the last resort for me and I'll try everything else before I go close to an ultimatum, and sometimes I'll just walk away rather than make the ultimatum.<br /><br />As AskRichard said, you have to really mean it when you issue an ultimatum. You have to be prepared to do the "or else" bit of it. You can't issue and ultimatum and then have the individual/s not do what you asked for and then fail to follow through with the "or else" part because that undermines your own credibility and could suggest that you issue threats to try to get your own way, not because of any genuine reason (such as being unable to cope with a certain situation).<br /><br />Anyway, here are some other thoughts about ultimatums (identifying features from those who made the comments have been removed):<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Person 1</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Ultimatums. (e.g. "Do this or I won't do that.")</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> Generally I avoid them like the plague - likening them to bringing a knife into the relationship ("cut me or I'll cut you!"). I'm aware this is an exaggeration, but people tend to get into a habit of putting up with them until they get to that level of importance emotionally.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> I'm also very careful to be aware of "couched" (aka "slippery") ultimatums. (e.g. "You can do this, but if something else happens, then I'll do that.")</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> I see them as a discussion-stopper; something to end a discussion without really understanding the other person's point of view or empathising with them. I may go so far as to say that ultimatums can be seen as dehumanising the person you're attempting to </span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">. If </span><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> you give someone an </span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">, then you're effectively lowering them to the level of someone who's only purpose is to do everything your way. The compromise has ended, then communication has ended. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> Obviously, the importance of the issue in contention has a great effect. Usually people become acutely aware of them, tho, when they're used in a "final" or great sense, or when the cause and effect is greatly imbalanced. e.g. "Don't talk to him again or I'll dump you."</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> Whereas "Stop eating that ice cream or our baby will die" is obviously imbalanced in the other direction.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> When people give ultimatums, it's usually a miscommunication. What they're really trying to say is "That would hurt me really badly." The next question I'd ask in that situation is "Why would that hurt you really badly?"</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> The problem I've always had with ultimatums is that most people don't really know. It's usually a response to something that happened a long time ago (e.g. childhood experiences, early relationship failure, etc.) combined with a strong insecurity that makes them want to control the </span><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> situation. But by the time they get to dishing out an </span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">, they're usually too upset to consider that they themselves could be overreacting. "You're wrong, you're damn wrong, and you should be made to feel the pain I did!"</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> I know that alot of this is generalisations (as most of my discussions tend to be - I tend to think big all the time).</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> In my experience, the times I myself have issued ultimatums, I've regretted them very shortly afterwards, even going back to people and apologising and explaining myself - somewhat embarrassingly.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Most of the ultimatums I've experienced, however, have come from other people. I seem to be the person people want to control, even though I tend to be more committed to things than the average male.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> What do people think?</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> How do you help (diffuse?) someone who's worked themselves up to an </span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">?</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> Distinct categorisation tends to fuel this, I find. e.g. "You can't be in a poly relationship with someone who's mono." How do you convince someone that there's overlap when they don't see it, or don't believe it?</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> Do you walk away and hope the person realises they've made a terrible error of judgement?</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"> What do you do if the person is totally and utterly convinced that there are only two options?</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Person 2</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Why would you want to convince somebody of something they have decided isn't there? </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"> If somebody delivers an </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">, what I see them saying is "You have challenged what I currently see as an absolute value" or "I cannot budge from this value at this time"</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"> Who are we to take away somebody's personal values? We can challenge values, offer alternative values, present a case for our own values - most importantly ensure they are seen as individual values and not enshrined in law.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"> Its sort of like trying to convince and atheist that deities exist, or convince a religious person that they don't. Why? </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"> Taking it back to polyamory - the statement "You can't be in a poly perosn with someone who is mono" is perfectly legitimate - for the person who believes it. What they are saying is "I can't be in a relationship with somebody who is not the same as me." Doesn't mean the statement is true for everyone - but it is true for them, and should be honoured. It mightn't be true tomorrow, it mightn't have been true yesterday - but RIGHT NOW the statement is their personal truth.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"> I would accept an </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"> as "Right now I won't be budging on this thought/idea/value/condition." Then, being the hard faced bugger that I am, I'd probably do what I like anyway, and take the rap.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Person 3</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">On a slightly different note on ultimatums:</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> One thing I've recently worked out is that an </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> does not force me to choose anything. Just because someone else has communicated what decision they currently intend to make at a future date does not mean that I have to do anything at all in the present.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> Even if there is no (intended) bluff factor, ultimatums do limit the issuer's future possible action, but they don't limit mine in any way.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> The issuer is in effect forcing themselves to decide a certain way while I am able to use this new information (including bluff weighting) and change my actions or continue on with default actions (ie, pretending the </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> was not issued at all).</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> I believe that a lot of the power in an </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> comes from: "A or B. YOU choose."</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> There can be a C (or many of them). Or a D: the </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> can be ignored.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> What I've written hopefully works in theory. It's a shitty situation to be in in actuality.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Person 4</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);">An </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);"> can be a threat, and that's probably a bad thing. But something that might be readable as an </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);"> could also be a straightforward statement of boundaries: "this situation/behaviour is not something I can live with". Which I'd say is information that it's</span><br /><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);"> reasonable to want to convey. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);"> For example: say you have a partner who gets abusive when they're drunk, but nevertheless keeps getting drunk. To say "I'm not prepared to keep putting myself in this situation" could be read as an </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);">. But it's also a valid position to hold; and you might well want to say that</span><br /><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 204);"> to your partner before upping sticks and leaving. (Whether saying it will/would change anything is of course another matter.) That's a fairly extreme example, but in general I think that one is entitled to decide what you can or can't live with, and that explaining that to people affected by it is legit. To say "ultimatums are bad!" can end up as another way to shut people down.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Person 5</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">To come at this from a sort of side angle:</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> I think that ultimatums are often (as you say) about expressions of pain.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> It seems to me that they can also embody personal boundaries, and in fact often do.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> Whether a person is saying in effect, "If you cross this line, you will cause me intolerable pain" or "If I remain in relationship with you after you cross this line, I am transgressing my personal integrity", there may still be a boundary there that has to be accepted. In my experience, if a matter of personal integrity is involved, the person giving the </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> is often calmer and more centered, and will be consistent with their boundary over a long period of time.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> I think that, whether they are expressive of painful damage or of clearly defined personal boundaries, ultimatums should be treated with respect. (If a person habitually (and inconsistently) issues ultimatums on many issues, of course, it's probably an inappropriate means of controlling things, but in my experience that is uncommon.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> I'm not meaning to say that once an </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> has been issued that it can't be explored. A request for explanation and understanding is reasonable, especially if you feel harshly constrained by the </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Pain issues can be worked on, but only with mutual agreement about process. Personal boundaries of integrity can change over time, although they may not. But the control of that exploration needs to be in the hands of the issuer, and the </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" class="il">ultimatum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> perhaps needs to be accepted as a valid expression before it can be explored.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">So...</span><br /><br />So, there are lots of different ideas about ultimatums in relationships. My personal advice is that they are last resort things and that all other issues should have been explored with good communication techniques before it comes to issuing an ultimatum.<br /><br />What do you think?Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-55605139423382106842009-08-22T10:09:00.003+10:002009-08-22T10:12:23.807+10:00A couple of interesting blog posts on polyamoryBoth are from <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/">The Friendly Atheist</a>.<br /><br />The <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/08/18/ask-richard-considering-an-ultimatum-to-her-intolerant-family/">first post</a> is about methods to deal with a religiously conservative family's reaction to news about polyamory. The <a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/08/08/polyamory-and-polygamy/">second</a> is about polyamory (mostly US focused but relevant elsewhere) and civil rights for poly people.<br /><br />EnjoyRebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-12151228821956745862009-05-27T11:59:00.002+10:002009-05-27T13:20:51.667+10:00So is polyamory scary?Well I think it depends on what you are afraid of, and fear is not necessarily a bad thing, though it can be inhibiting.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Social conventions</span><br /><br />Breaking with social conventions and expectations can be a terrifying thing for some people. The fear that you could be targeted by those who disagree with anyone breaking social mores is valid, however, with poly communities in much of the Western world, you'll not be alone in deciding to live differently to social convention.<br /><br />What to do about such fear? Well I'd recommend finding a poly community and talking to them about identification issues and safety, and how they deal with it in their local area.<br /><br />There are poly communities in Australia, the United States, the UK, Canada, South Africa, France, Portugal, Mexico, Denmark, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, the Philippines, Spain, Switzerland and Sweden just to name a few (<a href="http://www.polyamorysociety.org/localgroups.html" target="_blank">http://www.polyamorysociety.<wbr>org/localgroups.html</a> and <a href="http://www.polyamory.org/SF/groups.html" target="_blank">http://www.polyamory.org/SF/<wbr>groups.html</a>). <br /><br />Many of the poly people I know don't disclose their lifestyle choices beyond their immediate circle of intimates, some may extend that to family and friends, but not many people publicly identify as being poly. I suspect that this may be because of a lack of good poly role-models, and some of this being due to the whole poly concept being relatively new as far as social movements go.<br /><br />So, apart from bigotry and in some very conservative communities the risk of losing your employment and children, what else have you to fear?<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Hurt</span><br /><br />Some people, and I've been amongst them, are afraid that with the increased number of relationships is the increased potential for break ups and hurt occurs. To put it simply, yes that is true.<br /><br />But what this simple explanation does not take into account is that with the increased number of relationships, there is an increased amount of support, and that for those who join a poly community, exist another support network, because most of them have been through it too at some point.<br /><br />Remember, even monogamy is a world of hurt and break up, very few people marry the first person they dated. It is very different being involved in one break up and yet having another deeply happy and loving relationship existing to return to, and to be able to cry on your partner's shoulder about the partner that has left, died, etc.<br /><br />So there are high highs and low lows, but I think that in this field, polyamory actually comes across better off than monogamy.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Personal Growth</span><br /><br />This one can be quite scary. As I've suggested before, and certainly have experienced, a monogamous relationship challenges your personal growth to a certain point before comfort, other and self knowledge set in. Not being someone with a long history (or any real history) of multiple monogamous relationships, I suppose I'm not the best qualified to discuss how this works outside my own experience, however polyamory is a real challenge to personal growth.<br /><br />Its harder to explain away to yourself and your partner quirks, blind spots and baggage when it is obvious to more than two of you. That can be rather scary and hard work. In the end though, it is worth it. I undertook 2 years of good counselling to deal with some of my baggage and blind spots, because I could see that they were getting in the way. <br /><br />(Actually I recommend good counselling to everyone, monogamous or polyamorous or even asexual. Good counselling is good for you. Very few people have issue free childhoods after all.)<br /><br />For many of the poly people I know, and for those I am in relationships with, polyamory has increased our self awareness and emotional intelligence and certainly has held up big signs pointing to issues that need to be resolved. Its not all smooth sailing, but the rewards are awesome in the end.<br /><br />I've certainly found, despite the need to work hard on my own shit, that I'm now a much more secure, confident and powerful individual than when I first entered the world of polyamory. This is my experience and the experience of others I know. <br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Do the benefits outweigh the costs?</span><br /><br />I'm specifically referring to fear here, and really this is something that I can't tell you and you have to judge for yourself. However, if the fear of personal growth and potential hurt is something you are prepared to accept, the next step is dealing with society.<br /><br />You don't have to tell the world that you are poly, you can live a quiet and unassuming life. You can choose also, to stand up to the world and tell those who disagree with you to go away and leave you alone. In the end, its your choice.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-2680953529015655672009-04-12T21:00:00.002+10:002009-04-12T23:54:42.100+10:00Love - part 2In thinking about love and forms of love, and in a conversation I had with James recently, I came upon a realisation that there are some people who I think (and this is more of an observation than a certainty) who fall in love with the idea of someone more than the reality of that person.<br /><br />I'll explain.<br /><br />But first I'll start with how I've observed this, and where my ideas come from (and hope that this all makes sense). <br /><br /><ul><li>People in relationships with someone who discover that their partner is bisexual, and then feel threatened, disgusted, upset that their partner is bisexual (wonder why people don't always disclose everything, particularly sexuality?).</li><li>People who discover that their partner has an interest or desire that is an unexpected surprise, such as football allegiances opposite to their own, sexual desire that their partner finds perverse, etc</li><li>People who discover that the person that they are in a relationship with is not the person they thought they were initially</li></ul>Ok, so... people tend to focus on their own reality, essentially there is nothing wrong with this, but what if you force your own reality onto someone else? Is that right? <br /><br />Really, what I'm asking is whether you love someone for who they really are, giving them the freedom to be truly themselves, or whether you love an idea or aspect of that person, trying to conform them into your vision of who they are?<br /><br />I know it is a frightening thing to discover that your partner/friend/sibling/parent is someone with their own goals, images of who they are and desires for their life, but in the end, I honestly believe that it makes for a stronger relationship to love everything positive about that person, even if it doesn't fit in with your preconceived ideas of who that person was before you discovered something new and different.<br /><br />So, if you are monogamous and you entered a relationship with a polyamorous person, knowing full well that they are poly, is it right for you to expect that your partner remain monogamous with you just with you? Do you have a responsibility to love and respect all of that person and therefore give them the freedom to be themselves completely? Now, the poly person may have promised to be monogamous in that relationship, but I don't like to expect people to keep promises that are against their nature, which is my own personal view of the world.<br /><br />I'd much prefer to allow my partners to love and live how they will provided they are doing no harm to me or others. I want my partners to have the freedom to be their complete selves and know that they have that freedom. I love them with that freedom and am secure enough in my relationships with them to know that despite what they end up doing, who they love, who they have sex with and who they spend time with, that they will love me, spend time with me, and continue to be in relationships with me unless the relationship ends naturally.<br /><br />I'm a big believer in freedom, I don't want to be fettered and so won't fetter others. It isn't easy, I've been insecure at times, frightened at others, but long-term it has worked out the best way for me and my partners. They know I give them the freedom to be themselves and consequently they give me the freedom to be myself. At no time do I have to worry that my partner/s are jealous that I've flirted or talked to another person, that I might be interested in someone else and have to tread softly around the subject with them. I do not feel that I am a possession, but an individual in my own right.<br /><br />I would like to challenge people to find security in their relationships and within themselves to weather any storm. I challenge people to then give their partner/friends/siblings/parents/family the complete freedom to be themselves. Don't be scared, it could be the start to a magical journey.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-42320665361989752032009-03-09T20:22:00.002+11:002009-03-09T21:29:25.253+11:00LoveThere are some sad things that I have come across in my life about love and some misconceptions as well. First the sad things.<br /><br />On a work trip recently a colleague and I were talking about relationships, love, polyamory, lesbianism, family and the like. She asked me what I meant when I said I "fell in love with" or that I "loved" my partners.<br /><br />I replied that I loved them, but she asked me to define that. So I struggled to find words that fit into her own personal dictionary - which was difficult since we come from such different spaces in the world.<br /><br />In the end, she told me that she doesn't love people like I do, and in fact that she doesn't love her current partner. She loves her children, but she grew out of falling in love with people and so is very fond of her partner and cares for her, but does not love her.<br /><br />I found this sad, mostly because of the idea that you could "grow out of falling in love" and that people over the world enter relationships without love, and I know there are many cultures in the world where that happens and has been happening for years, and that in those cultures love can be found... it still makes me sad though.<br /><br />Right, so if you have grown up and yet still find yourself in love or falling in love with people, don't ever let that go.<br /><br />So, the second thing is about love as a renewable resource. One thing many poly people say is that "love is not a starvation economy". I'm going to explain that here in writing so that it makes as much sense as I can make it, so that there might be more understanding about love and how it works for us poly people at least.<br /><br />A starvation economy suggests that if I love A, and then love B, the total love I have for A diminishes as I'm now sharing it with B also. Its probably easier to talk in terms of food, which is a finite/starvation economy. <br /><br />If I have a loaf of bread that I intend to share with A, then we're going to get around 50% of the bread each. If B comes along and asks for some bread, then we'll all get around 33% of the bread. With each person asking for some bread, the amount of bread available to each person lessens. <br /><br />Love is not like this. If a mother loves her first child, then if she has another, then the first child does not have less love. If a person loves their friend, then making a new friend does not mean that the love for the first friend diminishes.<br /><br />Time is a finite resource, but time and love are two different things.<br /><br />So I love James, and I love him very very much. When I fell in love with Scott, I didn't start loving James less. If anything I loved him more. When I fell in love with Nadia, I didn't love James or Scott less, I love them all.<br /><br />Love is actually infinite. There is no upper limit to the capacity of love people have inside them, though there may be limitations on whether people can access that or not - looking at my example above.<br /><br />I have had people ask me why I fell in love with someone else if I loved my husband. Its because I could, because I can, because that's the way I'm wired. I tend to fall in love easily and out of love slowly. This does not make me wrong, this just makes me different.<br /><br />Being able to love multiple people is not immoral, is not unethical, is not illegal. Acting upon it might be if it is not discussed or disclosed - see my earlier <a href="http://only-more-so.blogspot.com/2008/12/honesty.html">post</a>.<br /><br />So, I hope that explains my position about love not being finite.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-77619422727879352672008-12-31T15:02:00.002+11:002008-12-31T15:24:20.758+11:00HonestyIn response to Toni who posted a comment on my previous blog post:<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">"So being poly is fucking whoever you want, good good I must be poly then but it seems my poly relationships are quite short-term. I know some of my past poly relationships have been with people who were in relationships with monogamous partners, but it would have been bad form for me to discourage their poly lifestyle, even though their husbands were probalbly unaware of the poly element in their relationship. I guess it is the responsibility of the poly partner in a monogamous relationship to inform her partner. It would be socially awkward for me to introduce myself as the fellow who is fucking his wife!"</span><br /><br />At no point will I ever encourage someone who is poly to act in a dishonest way in their relationship/s. Cheating on your partner/s is always cheating regardless of whether you are poly or monogamous. You can cheat on your poly partners as easily as you can cheat when you are monogamous. I discourage all forms of cheating and instead encourage people who are tempted to cheat to sort out why they are tempted to and to talk to their partners about it or resolve the issue as they best possibly can. Counselling is always a good option.<br /><br />To say that polyamory is fucking whoever you want is over simplifying the whole issue. Polyamory is ethical non-monogamy. If fucking whoever you want is indeed ethical to both you and the fuckee, then go for it. If it isn't, then perhaps you need to rethink your strategy and ideals and come up with something that is ethical.<br /><br />I demand honesty from my partners and I give it in return. I would have big, insurmountable issues with a partner if they were not being honest with me, in fact that would be a deal breaker. Part of that honesty is ensuring that their partner is aware of me and ok with the relationship I have with them, whether that relationship lasts for a night or much longer.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-66452085521554282242008-12-24T17:56:00.002+11:002008-12-24T19:35:12.436+11:00Definitions<span style="font-weight: bold;">Polyamory</span>: [as taken from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory">Wikipedia</a>] is the desire, practice, or acceptance of having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved. Polyamorous perspectives differ from monogamous perspectives, in that they respect a partner's wish to have second or further meaningful relationships and to accommodate these alongside their existing relationships.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Monogamy:</span> [also from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamy">Wikipedia</a>] is the custom or condition of having only one mate in a relationship, thus forming a couple.<br /><br />Why, you ask, did I feel the need to find these definitions and put them up here? Good question, and one I shall answer, after finding a much better definition of monogamy.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">Monogamy:</span> [from the <a href="http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au">Macquarie Dictionary</a>] 2. the practice of remaining faithful to a single sexual partner.<br />3. Zoology the habit of having only one mate.<br /><br />Ok, I am poly, James is poly, my girlfriend is poly, Scott is monogamous. This seems to be a bit of an issue for some people (and I am relationships with all these people if that wasn't clear). Their reasoning is:<br /><ul><li>If someone is in a relationship with someone else who is poly and that first person is actively poly, then the second (third/fourth/etc) person must also be poly.</li></ul>And I think that this reasoning is flawed. Its flawed because it removes the option for someone to self identify (which has its own range of problems [I'm not going to enter the "I'm a lesbian who has sex with mostly men" debate here]) and also assumes that monogamy and polyamory cannot coexist in the same sphere, that they are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutually_exclusive_events">mutually exclusive</a>.<br /><br />Clearly I'm shooting this reasoning and theory in the head. I'm poly and in a relationship with a monogamous man. I'm not someone who identifies as poly who is currently acting monogamous and in a monogamous relationship, because that's a different game again. I am actively poly and yet one of my partners is monogamous.<br /><br />You see, as long as he doesn't mind that I see other people, which he doesn't, then my other relationships are mine and have no impact on his sexual or relationship orientation. With the definitions above (minus the definition of monogamy from Wikipedia which is rather useless), there is nothing stopping Scott being monogamous and in a relationship with me while I'm being in a relationship with him and other people, that is being poly.<br /><br />If Scott later decides to dabble in the pool of polyamory, which at this point he has stated he has no inclination to do, then that's his choice and I will respect that and probably encourage it (as well as be supportive and a good partner). If he chooses not to, if he remains monogamous for the rest of his life, I will also support and respect his decision.<br /><br />See, monogamy and polyamory can coexist side by side in the same sphere and work.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-58088906455577314702008-12-15T11:44:00.002+11:002008-12-15T12:59:55.712+11:00Telling the world you're polyI noticed within myself when I became actively poly, versus knowing I was poly and not doing much about it, that I wanted to tell the world about my new relationship and how magnificent it all was, and how everyone was getting along so well.<br /><br />I think most people go through this, I've certainly watched monogamous people do this with their latest partner, so the fact that polyamorous people want to do it too should come as no great surprise. I suspect part of it has to do with the rush of new relationship energy, and wanting to tell the whole world how lucky you are that you found X (and Y and Z perhaps).<br /><br />However, telling the world when you're poly is trickier than when you are monogamous. In my experience, this has stemmed from having to explain what polyamory is in the first place and dealing with various people's prejudices about monogamy being the preferred option, whether that be helped religious beliefs or their own ideals.<br /><br />My own experience pointed to different phases in telling the world that I am poly. The first phase was telling people and then explaining it to them. During this period I was afraid of rejection from friends and family and went out of my way to explain that James and I were happily married, that our respective partners were new and sustainable relationships and that it wasn't all going to end in tears.<br /><br />The second phase had me explain poly, but in a much more positive mind set. I had moved to the, "if you don't like it, that's your problem and not mine" mindset. Which meant that I wasn't afraid of rejection, because that was not my problem, and if someone walked away because of my lifestyle, then perhaps they weren't worth keeping.<br /><br />The final phase has me now just expecting people to cope with the fact that I am poly. I will just drop into conversation that I have two husbands and a girl friend and expect people to keep up. This is actually the easiest, for me, of all the phases. I believe that because I have an expectation that people will keep up, and most of the hard work (my family and close friends) have already been told. Therefore, if someone objects now, then its not going to be as painful.<br /><br />To get to the final phase I believe requires a level of confidence about yourself and your lifestyle choices. The final phase also requires you to not take rejection personally. To recognise that their rejection is their issue and if they cannot or will not cope with your choices in life, then that doesn't mean that you are not ok, it just means that they cannot cope.<br /><br />My final bit of advice in relation to telling people that you are poly is to choose your battles wisely. We still have friends we haven't told because it isn't worth the angst it would cause. Not to us, but to them, and we don't want to upset them that much. Consideration as to how your employer might react is also worthwhile before outing yourself at work. I'm a Federal Public Servant in Australia, my employer can't discriminate against me, and my colleagues don't care. But some employers might, and since some discrimination isn't illegal, its best to be careful and know how your employer will deal with such things before telling them.<br /><br />Good luck in telling everyone you want to tell.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-55857548458956135982008-10-19T21:36:00.002+11:002008-10-19T21:38:21.833+11:00This article is relevantAnd reminds me that I need to write a post about bisexuality and polyamory at some point.<br /><br />Enjoy <a href="http://pleasureactivism.org/bi_and_poly.html">this</a>.<br /><br />(Note: I do have some issues with the way this article is structured, however I think its well written and researched. I think it'd be better off as two separate papers, but that's just my take.)Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-20735615404680196142008-10-17T17:00:00.001+11:002008-10-17T18:23:05.583+11:00My actual point is....<div>The types of people who are poly. </div><br />(I've been trying to write this post for weeks. School and other things kept getting in the way... so back to my post)<br /><br />So, in very quick summary.... poly people generally are trying to be more self-aware, are as flawed and injured as anyone else, have a better idea (in my experience) of what they want and tend to be a whole lot more sex positive.<br /><br />Really, this doesn't make them stand out in a crowd, unless of course they are standing with all their partners and clearly treating them equally in terms of affection or there is some other sign. Poly people generally are very little different from the rest of the world at large. The biggest difference really comes down to how we build our relationships and what we're willing to do to have those relationships.<br /><br />Monogamy is only one option in the types of relationships that people can have, polyamory is another. Poly people can (and some are) be religious, they just don't tend to accept all the rules or customs of their religion. They study, have families, work, contribute, volunteer and live next door to you.<br /><br />Despite all the negative press that polyamory, polygamy, polygyny and polyandry gets, provided that everyone is in agreement, that boundaries are set and respected, these options are as valid as the accepted cultural norms. It really does not end up all in tears any more than relationships do in the monogamous world.<br /><br />So, anyone who is willing to do the work that is required in themselves and in their relationship (if they are in one), who is willing to respect boundaries, start sorting out what they want and who knows that they can love more than one person at a time, or continue love someone who can love more than one person at a time, can consider entering the great big world of poly.<br /><br />So some resources for everyone:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.polymatchmaker.com/pmm3/main.mv">PolyMatchMaker</a> is a good site with excellent forums (and match making functionality) where discussions about all things poly (and some things not). There is a vibrant community involved with some really wonderful people. If you're not from Australia, its a good place to start to find out if there is a poly community near you, and to find out more about poly people in general.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bi-victoria.org/">Bi-Victoria</a> is a website for the bisexual community in Victoria, Australia. There is a sister group "Poly-Victoria" that uses Bi-Victoria's website to list their social meetings and discussion group events. Check the list on the left-hand side of the page for more information.<br /><br />There are also two Yahoo! groups in Australia (and no doubt more worldwide) that act as a mailing list in relation to poly issues. I don't subscribe to them myself (I don't have time), but James does. There is a good list <a href="http://au.groups.yahoo.com/search?query=polyamory">here</a>.<br /><div> </div>Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-51860426011901259422008-09-17T10:30:00.004+10:002008-09-18T16:46:51.265+10:00"NO!"Learning to say "no" is one of the most difficult skills for a poly person to acquire.<br /><br />I was having a think about it last night, after chatting with a friend who is fairly new to poly and is finding herself being overwhelmed with offers. In my opinion, saying no is actually a set of three skills:<br /><br />1) Knowing when you need to say "no"<br />2) Being able to actually say it, and<br />3) Saying it in a positive, or at least non-hurtful, way.<br /><br />Each one is a distinct skill, and it's possible to have one or more of them and lack others. All of them are important, though, and generally your poly experience will be easier and happier if you can master them all. That said, while I have #1 down pretty well now, I'm still working on consistently applying #2, and #3 is still very hard.<br /><br />Number one is all about self-awareness, and it's more than just recognising compatibility (or a lack thereof) with another person. It's also about knowing your own limitations, recognising how much time and energy a new romantic commitment will take up and deciding whether you can spare them. One of the hardest things is meeting someone with whom you have great chemistry, but realising that your life is just too full for another relationship, so you have to tell them "no".<br /><br />Number two is about confidence and trust in yourself. Whether you have no interest in someone who is interested in you, or you feel the same as they do but can't initiate anything for other reasons, actually coming out with it and saying "no" can be very tough. I think the strongest incentive to urge you to speak your mind is thinking about the potential consequences if you keep silent. Imagine someone developing deep feelings for you that you can't reciprocate because you couldn't bit the bullet and tell them it couldn't go anywhere. Like many emotional issues, it's one of things that gets more painful the longer you leave it.<br /><br />Number three is a tough one. Nobody who is interested in you wants to hear that you don't feel the same about them, and it's the kind of news which is going to sting a bit, no matter how well you phrase it. Unless you're a nasty person, causing other people pain is something you want to avoid. This may contribute to a failure to exercise skill #2 above: turning someone down hurts, and you don't want to hurt anyone, so you have trouble turning people down even when you know you should.<br /><br />I think there is an art to letting people down gently, rather than a precise science, so no advice is universally applicable. To be honest, I am not a good one to give advice on <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">developing</span> skill #3 anyway: I don't often find myself pursued, so rarely need to let people down, gently or otherwise. The last time I had to do it, I don't think I did a very good job. I recognise that this is a skill I really need to work on.<br /><br />My problem is that I have an aversion to conflict (hooray for childhood traumas) and tend avoid saying "no" for as long as possible. When I finally say it, it's often because I've been backed into a corner and forced to finally be fully honest. As a result, I'm feeling cornered and defensive, and not in the loving <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">headspace</span> needed to tell someone they can't have what they want but avoid hurting them more than can be avoided.<br /><br />Sorry this blog post is a little unsatisfying - this is an issue I am still working on myself.<br /><br /><strong>REBECA'S VIEW</strong><br /><br />I thought I'd add my two cents to this, and in particular number three on the list above. I think I am somewhat qualified to add to this given I seem to have a small queue of men who would love to take me to bed with them (at least), and whom I've had to turn down.<br /><br />I think the art of saying no, is when its said with respect for the other's feelings, which James has already stated above. And also with a genuine sense of appreciation for how hard it is to actually ask someone for more than a hug, and an appreciation of how flattering it is to be desired.<br /><br />I had to learn this, by the way. I had a close friend who was an artist at saying no to people in ways that left them happy, if a little disappointed. I never got to overhear any of her conversations with people she said no to, but she'd tell me later and I never got an explanation from her as to what she did.<br /><br />So then came along the day when I actually realised that I needed to say no to someone. A lovely angel of a man who many people find quite sexy, and with whom I didn't feel any chemistry. I emailed him and apologised for my lack of chemistry, given that I felt that I was letting the side down given how desired he was by everyone else. <br /><br />I wasn't happy with the whole emailing thing, but given he lived in another city, it was the best option at the time.<br /><br />Then, more offers from lovely people who I adore, but feel no chemistry with (I'm quite picky). Each time I told them how flattered I was, how much I appreciated them asking me, but given <em>I</em> didn't feel any chemistry with them, it'd be wrong/unfair on both of us to take it further than we have. I am still close with these people, I appear to have let them know that I do value them as friends and confidants and am not dismissive of their desires. The fact that I continue lightly flirting with them and being affectionate with them probably helps - but that was the way I was with them before they propositioned me.<br /><br />One sweet gentleman (and he'd laugh if he read that description of himself), asked me on <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">IM</span> once when we were chatting if I was interested in more with him. I said that I loved chatting with him, but that was as far as I was willing to take it. He said that he thought that was the case and just wanted to check and that he loved how he could be incredibly suggestive with me and I'd just laugh and continue talking with him, because there had been some people who took offense at that.<br /><br />So, respect the individual and their courage in asking or propositioning you. Thank them for asking you and say no gently. This clearly applies to people you like and know and want to remain friends with. There will always be people who don't listen to a subtle no, and for whom, "fuck no" or even "fuck off" is the only answer they might hear. Don't feel bad in using that in that instance. If you've tried to say no in all the other ways and not been heard, telling someone directly, even if it does hurt their feelings, isn't a bad thing. Its better to be safe than sorry <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">after all</span>.DexXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15306977150813114297noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-92171444084271584622008-08-29T14:40:00.002+10:002008-08-29T14:41:07.030+10:00Go and read this post... nowI don't generally find another blog post so amazing that I have to post about it... but this ties in here just as much as anything else I could write.<br /><br />So go and read... and enjoy<br /><a href="http://alexthegirl.com/2008/06/289">http://alexthegirl.com/2008/06/289</a>Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-58236712937037780172008-07-29T08:51:00.002+10:002008-07-29T10:30:10.227+10:00Sexual Assault - the aftermathThis story is graphic in its detail and those who have survived sexual assault may wish to skip this bit and start reading again at the row of <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">asterisks</span>. <br />*<br />*<br />*<br />*<br />*<br />I was friends (unfortunately only briefly) with a beautiful and sweet woman when I first attempted university. I noticed that she had a scar on her neck and I didn't ask her about it because that was impolite and I assumed that it was probably surgical in nature.<br /><br />During one of our physics practials, after we'd known each other for a while, she told me I should ask her how she got the scar on her neck sometime. So I asked. She told me that she had had her throat slit and was raped. <br /><br />Her story was horrifying, she was walking home from school and was walking along the bank of the river that cut through the town, as this was a well used path, very public and usually very safe. She heard someone walking behind her, turned and saw a man walking some distance back. As it was a public place, she didn't worry and when she heard him approach, thought that he was overtaking her. <br /><br />Instead he grabbed her, cut her throat and she passed out from the blood pressure loss. Fortunately for her, her attacker was inept and only severed one of her arteries and nicked the other. As she fell unconscious with her head forward it stemmed the blood loss. At one point she regained consciousness and struggled with her attacked and managed to cause him some injury. <br /><br />She again fell unconscious and was found by two young school boys walking home. They raised the alarm and she was taken to hospital, where she spent quite a bit of time, and made - as much as you can - a full recovery.<br />*<br />*<br />*<br />*<br />*<br />*************************************<br />Ok, in summary rape is a terrible thing and the reason I told the story above is that like most terrible things, there are degrees. I was raped by my boyfriend when I was 16 - it wasn't violent just coersive. I stayed with him for another 3 years and it was an emotionally abusive relationship, because I couldn't see any other option - at that time. However, I would never compare my rape with that of my friend above.<br /><br />Like common assault where it can range from being spat upon through to being punched, there are degrees of sexual assault. I'm not demeaning mine or anyone else's experience, I'm just stating that there are degrees - and in my opinion, anyone who tells you that all rape is the same is demeaning my friend's experience and elevating mine to something nonsensical.<br /><br />Apart from stating that there are degrees of sexual assault, some worse than others, the main thrust of this post is about what happens next. Physical wounds heal, the body regenerates as much as it can and can leave physical reminders of what happened, but often its the psyche that takes the longest to heal - and that is perfectly understandable. <br /><br />Sexual assault - whether it be by someone you know and trust, or by a complete stranger, is a terrible thing to experience and the shame, disempowerment and soul damage that survivors experience is really hard. <br /><br />How do you move on after such a terrible thing has happened? For me, and for my friend I believe, it was a case of not letting that event define us. I am so much more than that one event. I am someone who has survived rape and sexual assault, but that's only a small part of who I am. I don't want to let that define who I am, when I know that that is only one of the many experiences in my life that make me who I am.<br /><br />I was lucky in that the date-rape that I survived was relatively minor on the scale of rape and sexual assault. It was easier for me to move on and grow into the person that I have become. My new partner, when I eventually left that relationship, was incredibly supportive and understanding. <br /><br />For my friend, she turned to her faith and that helped her, as did an incredibly supportive family and friends network. She was determined to move on, even though she would bear the physical scars for the rest of her life.<br /><br />Finding the key that helps you move on is important, whether it be travelling, religion, counselling, study, family, friends or other healthy relationships. Your state of mind about how the universe and you interact is also important I believe. <br /><br />Life is unfair, that is something that we all need to accept and bad things do happen to good people, but doing your best to be a full and complete person, to be the entire sum of all your experiences and not the sum of the negative experiences, is important.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-78692276214209572332008-06-22T21:34:00.002+10:002008-07-01T21:35:10.732+10:00Knowing what you wantI have this theory, it goes something like this:<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">The more you know about what you want from life, the happier and more centred you will be. </span><br /><br />This is why it is important to sit down and think about what you want, and one of the best ways in starting that process is looking at what you don't want in your life. Everyone has some idea about the things that make them unhappy, the things that haven't worked in other relationships and typically have a mental list of things that they certainly don't want in the next relationship (whatever sort it may be).<br /><br />And people have the opposite too, the things that did work, the things that do make them happy, the things that they do want to find... and see you're almost there already (at least for relationships) on a path to finding what you want.<br /><br />So, why is it important? I've found, as an available woman dating on OkCupid, that people are attracted to others who know what they want, who have that added degree of certainty about themselves, and who appear confident because they've decided things about themselves, their desires and to some extent how they fit in the world.<br /><br />Which is not to say that I know everything about what I want, but I know a lot. I know a lot about what I want from relationships, I have a fair idea what I want from potential employers when I finish my degree and start looking for work, I have a fair idea about how I want to interact with people and how I would prefer people to see me.<br /><br />Why is this important, and what does it have to do with polyamory? Figuring out exactly what I wanted has taken me quite some time to figure out, and evolves as I personally grow and change. What I think I may want today will gradually crystallise over time and may be quite different in form in 5 years time.<br /><br />But back to polyamory. If you don't know what you want, then it is very hard to ask that from one partner, let alone many. In my shoes certainly, polyamory has taught me that to get what I want and need I not only need to be confident enough to ask and/or take it, but that I need to know what it is. Monogamy gave me greater freedom to be slack. I could poke and prod James from time to time and he'd figure out what I wanted and I'd be happy with that. <br /><br />Add additional partners and the resorting of how your world works (in your head) and suddenly<br />there were a lot of different parameters for me to consider. James knew me thoroughly - he understood me and could answer my needs before I knew they existed (and yes, I do know how blessed I am to have such a wonderful relationship). A new partner required me to start verbalising some of my wants and needs.<br /><br />My former partner expressed his frustration with me in relation to people who didn't know what they wanted, and I didn't understand him as well as I do now (and not even he really knew what he wanted). Doing someone else's thinking for them, second guessing them and constantly trying to read between the lines is hard and tiring work.<br /><br />Of course most of this goes back to communication between you and your partner, but to communicate what you want and need, you need to know what those things are. Of course, this holds true for monogamous relationships as well as polyamorous ones.<br /><br />In summary, knowing what you want makes you more confident and means that you can start attempting to source those things. You can start talking to people who are close to you and ask for their help in attaining those goals, personal development and experiences. For me, knowing what I want has meant that not only am I more confident, but I'm also much happier as I'm getting what I want and need.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-41653976479651542852008-05-23T21:11:00.000+10:002008-05-23T21:12:31.267+10:00Madonna vs Whore dichotomy (sex positivity)I have read, recently, a wide number of articles (<a href="http://www.google.com.au/search?q=%22the+age%22+madonna+whore&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a">like these</a>) and commentary about the whole Madonna versus Whore dichotomy that women are expected to adhere to... Some of this has been in the Australian media and the rest various posts and articles from the US.<br /><br />Firstly, I think the standards that women, and people, are expected to maintain in the US are different from Australia. The US is a lot more conservative sexually (publicly) than Australia. Nipplegate caused a furore in the US, and was laughed at in Australia. We're somewhat more permissive here, and that makes my life SO much easier.<br /><br />But anyway... with "personalities" such as Sam Newman in Australia degrading women and causing <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/footy-show-ad-boycott-warning/2008/05/22/1211183003030.html">this reaction</a> its evident that there are still double standards for women even in Australia. Catherine Deveny <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-dangers-of-the-invisible-electric-fence/2008/05/20/1211182799862.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1">wrote</a> about how wrong it is that women are expected to stay silent about issues or be labelled hysterical, in relation to the Sam Newman issue.<br /><br />It's an ongoing issue and one that women play into themselves. How often have you heard one woman refer to another as a "slut" in a manner that is degrading? In my experience, women are crueler to other women than men. I don't know why this is and it upsets me every time I run into it, but it happens all the same. Perhaps for this reason I opted out of female and into the grey space between genders. I didn't wan to be a woman if it required acting like that and playing those games, and I'm not a man... so I'm me.<br /><br />But back to topic, women have two roles to play... the Madonna - the good girl, virtuous, well behaved, willing to put up with crap and smile... or the Whore - the bad girl, sexy, asking for it (in all senses of the phrase), willing to tell others to get lost....<br /><br />The articles and commentary talk about how men want a whore in the bedroom but want to be married to the Madonna.... they expect women to act at both ends of the spectrum simultaneously. The boys like the girls at the pub who drink, sleep around and have fun, but they won't marry them...<br /><br />All of this is a huge load of crap of course. Men and women who expect such insane behaviour should be taken outside, shaken and given a stern talking to. I'm not a student of anthropology or the human condition, other than what I've seen through life, so I can't give an answer as to why this happens... but I have my suspicions.<br /><br />The biggest is religion. There are very few mainstream religions that are sex positive. Since most societal norms, in my experience, stem from religion our culture isn't overly sex positive and has certain expectations of women. These expectations have, over time and especially recently, been eroded... women now work, allegedly earn as much as a man and are considered full human beings able to participate fully in society... well in Western society anyway.<br /><br />So... what, you ask, does this have to do with polyamory? What does Western society call women who have multiple partners? That's right... we're sluts... and we revel in it. There are polyamorous people who struggle with what other people will think, who try to be the good girl on the outside, even I'm guilty of that with certain people I know won't cope with the real me, but generally we (regardless of gender and orientation) take joy in being different, in being sex positive, of knowing what we want, knowing where we can find it and demanding that we be accepted for who we are.<br /><br />Sex is a good thing - its not the core of polyamory, but certainly is a nice perk - and pretending that you don't like sex because good girls don't is just insane. If you genuinely don't like sex... then that's your deal... but if you like sex, say so. Stop pandering to the societal norms that don't make sense and start being the entire you.<br /><br />Love who you are, love the things you enjoy, be proud that you are a sexual being, sensual and aware of the effect you have on others. All these things will lead to much greater happiness than trying to fit societal expectations.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-22705407588330529652008-05-09T13:35:00.002+10:002008-05-09T14:47:54.598+10:00Things I plan to post onI need to write a list so that when I am over this cold and my brain is working, I can look at the list and write on the topics below.<br /><br /><ol><li>Types of people who are poly</li><li>Why knowing what you want is important</li><li>Madonna vs Whore dichotomy (sex positivity)<br /></li><li>Sexual assault - the aftermath</li></ol><br />Not all of these topic seem immediately relevant to polyamory, but there are links... trust me.<br /><br />Now I have something to remind me what I was going to think and write about, I should have four articles written soon.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-79374600017685196852008-05-02T11:27:00.005+10:002009-02-24T13:15:26.760+11:00Letting it be what it isHey everyone, James here. I've been rather slack in getting my thoughts into this blog, but I've been trying to write more recently, so here I am!<br /><br />The topic of this blog post is one close to my heart. While at <a href="http://www.dte.org.au/">ConFest</a> over the Easter long weekend, my friends Anne and Pete ran some workshops on polyamory. I gave an answer to one of the participants' questions that got me thinking about one of the things I really love about being poly, but had never distilled into words before.<br /><br />Polyamory allows relationships to be what they are.<br /><br />I feel that, in the world of monogamy, there is great pressure from all sides for relationships to confirm to a certain archetype: meet, fall in love, get married, have satisfying sex, have children, stay together forever. Any ongoing relationship which doesn't match this template is suspect. If two people have been having a sexual relationship for years but have never felt the urge to settle down, their friends will almost certainly be asking when they're going to "tie the knot", and if they're not getting married when are they going to break up and find a "real" relationship.<br /><br />Intense platonic relationships fall under the same pressure. When the participants are single, friends will be asking, "So, have you had sex yet?" The suggestion will be that a relationship without sex is no relationship at all. If the participants are not single, then intense, loving, affectionate platonic relationships are a source of jealousy and tension. The trouble is, if someone in that situation tells a worried partner that, "We're just friends!" they may not be telling the truth; polyamorous people often tell me of intense "platonic affairs" that feel as real as any sexual relationship.<br /><br />The trouble is, trying to force these relationships into a designated shape will nearly always be a bad thing. I suspect we all know someone who found someone with whom they had amazing sex, and felt compelled to take it further, despite ample evidence that outside the bedroom they didn't get on so well. This will usually result in years of fighting, acromonious divorce, and unhappy children.<br /><br />Then there are the non-sexual affairs, which participants and friends may feel should be sexual. When two people who love each other deeply, love each other's company, and talk for hours about intense and personal topics, but feel no real sexual attraction toward each other, forcing the relationship into a sexual arena is rarely a good idea. Such relationships may naturally develop into something sexual over time, but forcing the issue is unlikely to make anyone happy. Years of passionless marriage, with bland, unsatisfying sex at best, and no sex at all at worst, can lead to affairs, betrayal, and broken hearts.<br /><br />Polyamory can neatly sidestep all of this bullshit. The reason is quite simple: in monogamy, you only get one relationship (aside from affairs) so you need to get all of your relationship needs met in one person. Most people need a confidante and friend, a soul mate, a partner, and a lover. They need someone who shares at least some of their interests, and someone who will meet their needs. In poly, you can meet your needs with multiple people, and this means that each person is not forced to try to be everything for you.<br /><br />If you're poly, you can have your passionate sexual friendship, knowing that you'll go home to your own place to sleep and not have to share a living space. You can have a deep, non-sexual relationship without having to either forego sex entirely (or have sex without someone you are not physically attracted to).<br /><br />As I see it, trying to reshape a relationship into something it was never meant to be is only going to hurt the people involved and break the relationship. Polyamory lets relationships be what they are, without pressure to make them into something else. This, I think, is one of the great gifts of being poly. In my own life, I have a lover named Jack. Early on we had a great conversation in which we both admitted that we didn't know precisely what our relationship was, where it was going, and what form it would ultimately take. More importantly, <em>neither of us cared</em>. There is true freedom in that, and it's one of the things I love most about this lifestyle.<br /><br />. . .<br /><br /><strong>Edit</strong> - I've heard through the grapevine that something I wrote in this blog entry has offended someone I care about. Even though no names were mentioned, they felt something I wrote made them feel personally identified and (I think) unfairly judged. It was not my intention to hurt anyone, so I have deleted the offending phrase and also deleted an anonymous comment made by that person that referenced that comment.<br /><br />If you read this, please get in touch and talk to me about it. I'd like to apologise and try to explain.DexXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15306977150813114297noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-12891995832015780552008-04-10T13:19:00.002+10:002008-04-11T14:06:40.093+10:00JealousyJealousy is one of the most asked after things about polyamory. Not usually asked of me personally, but asked a lot in our Poly community's discussion groups and other workshops. So, this is my take on it. How do you deal with it, does it happen, how does your partner deal with it, etc<br /><br />And as this is my take on jealousy it may not be entirely relevant to you. Who can tell but you. <br /><br />I don't think I'm all that standard when it comes to jealousy, maybe I am. As an example I never have been jealous of my husband's male sexual contact. I just can't be jealous of a my husband and his male partners. I know of women who are or who have struggled with their male partner seeking or desiring male sexual contact but for me its not an issue... and here is the reason why, I think, this is the case for me. <br /><br />For starters, I know my husband loves women. He loves men too, but he also loves women and when we first started out down this path, he wasn't ever likely to leave me for a man. And really that's the core of it. Whatever I can write here about jealousy... the core message is security. If you are secure in your relationship, then jealousy becomes less and less of an issue.<br /><br />Yes I do get jealous, but never of other men having relationships with my husband. So, what do I get jealous of? When I spoke to my husband about him seeing other women, I was terrified. I initiated the conversation because I'm a big believer in equity and fairness and he'd given me permission to pursue a man, so why shouldn't he have the same? <br /><br />Basically I was afraid he'd find someone younger, smarter, sexier, more successful, prettier, etc than me. How did I deal with it? I talked to him and explained how I felt and tried very hard to listen to the reassurances he gave me. I put boundaries around his activities until I felt comfortable. He let me cry on him, he listened to me, I explained how I felt, he reassured me. He was patient and kind and I tried very hard to be patient with myself and not push myself beyond what I could cope with... knowing full well that now I had cracked open this door there was no easy way to close it, I had to deal with these emotions and move on.<br /><br />My jealousies are generally insecurities. Some people's jealousies are other things, and I can't really comment on them, since I haven't experienced them. So until I feel really secure in a relationship, which takes its own time depending on the pace of the relationship, I can feel insecure when other (often newer) partners are involved. And I'm happy to label it insecurity versus jealousy, I'm happy to call it what it is. And I'm also happy to go out and seek that reassurance that I am special, unique, loved and needed for who I am. Because if I feel that, then I feel more secure. <br /><br />Over time, this has helped me understand that I am unique and individual and what I offer to the world is unique and special. There are no other Rebeccas around who are like me, or anyone else around that is like me. So if someone loves me, then they love not only who I am, but what I offer. So when I feel insecure I need to remember that. <br /><br />Which really is easier said than done. So when I can't quite get the whole "I am unique and no one else is like me, so I cannot be replaced", I go to my partner and tell them how I feel and ask them for reassurance. <br /><br />It all goes back to the poly mantra "communicate, communicate, communicate". Polyamory is built on open, honest and dedicated communication. If you aren't happy talking at length about your feelings, your partners feelings, negotiation and compromises... then perhaps it isn't for you. <br /><br />The one other jealousy I suffer from is jealousy of time. I love my partners and I want to spend time with them. If I can't spend time with them because they are spending time with other people, then I sometimes get jealous of that. The only way I've found to conquer this is to a) tell myself to be realistic and b) tell my partner that I miss them and organise to catch up with them as soon as we both can.<br /><br />Another solution, which is probably not even remotely for everyone, is to live with all your partners. This works for me now. The vagaries of time and distance aren't so much of an issue for me any more. They're both around when I want them and need them, I can spend time with one or both. Its making me extremely happy, but as I said, this won't work for everyone, and in fact I think it'd be more likely to work for a very small minority. Not all poly relationships are built to be live in relationships and that's part of what polyamory is all about.<br /><br />Ok... now for partners of jealous people - what role do you play? I think its really important to listen and be patient with your partner when they are suffering. You may feel that their fears are trivial because you know that you love them and that you're not going anywhere, but to them right now, their fears are huge and it takes a lot of effort to be willing to admit that to another person to begin with. Be ready to offer reassurance, but try to make sure they actually hear you. If they come back tomorrow and the next day and the next day with the same fears and concerns, then what you are saying isn't getting through and you may need to try another tactic. <br /><br />There are many good online resources for communication and <a href="http://life.gaiam.com/gaiam/p/RelationshipFixHowtoTellDifficultTruthsSoPeopleThankYou.html">this one</a> isn't a bad place to start if you think that their failure to hear you is hurting themselves. <br /><br />So to summarise. Jealousy is a natural emotion, and often born out of other emotions within yourself. Its important to own your emotions and it is completely valid to ask for reassurance. I believe that if you can own your emotions you will find them much easier to deal with in the long run. <br /><br />Jealousy fades the more secure you feel in a relationship. Finding the security in your relationships is an important thing to do, and if your relationship is insecure, then that's a whole separate kettle of fish. To find the security do not hesitate to ask difficult questions to find out what you need to know.<br /><br />Boundary setting is not a bad way to start with dealing with jealousy, but once the boundaries start shifting and moving, as they will, you can't re-establish them without causing resentment - be very careful about that.<br /><br />And finally, partners of jealous people need to be patient, gentle and willing to both listen and reassure. <br /><br />Ok, I'm done for now. I'll post again when I have another topic in mind that inspires me to write. If someone wants my thoughts on a specific poly issue, they are very welcome to suggest some through the comments field.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-795033577825266117.post-18318741106401619572008-02-29T12:19:00.003+11:002008-02-29T15:25:40.038+11:00What is polyamory?I'm not talking about a definition or explanation you can find on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory">wikipedia</a>, although that is useful. I'm talking about what it actually gives you, what you find when you are poly... if everything goes relatively well.<br /><br />This is more, I guess, about how polyamory feels, what I gain from it and why I am poly.<br /><br />I have never really been monogamous. My earlier relationships all overlapped until I was forced to choose between the two partners I had. I chose the new partner in each situation because there were reasons that those new relationships had started up... Being poly was only a matter of time for me... and the right partner/s and understanding it myself... but what do I get out of it?<br /><br />Being poly means I can love without restriction. I can find someone who I connect with and I can let myself fall in love with them, if that's where that relationship goes. Being poly means that I am loved and know I am loved by my many friends and my tribe. That we can declare our love for each other without having to second guess what it all means, because it really doesn't matter.<br /><br />Being poly means that not only am I loved, I know I am loved and that is a buffer against other pain in the world. When my other partner left me, I never thought that I was unlovable, unlikeable, that I should go off and eat some worms... I knew that I was loved by my tribe, husband and friends. There were there, their love was overwhelming and positive... even when the rest of the world was dim.<br /><br />So my world is filled with love, this is a good thing.<br /><br />I am never alone. This doesn't mean that I never have any time to myself... because if I didn't I'd go crazy, but my partner/s and tribe are always handy to offer hugs, an ear to listen, a shoulder to cry on, etc.<br /><br />My experience of monogamy is that your sole partner is expected mostly to do all this for you, that if your partner can't fulfil all your needs then there is something wrong with the relationship and you should leave it. This of course is bollocks. There will never be one person on the planet that meets all your needs. One person who fits you so perfectly that you never feel that need X or Y is going to be unmet. Monogamy is a series of compromises. You know that this person is close to perfect, that they meet most of your needs... so you bundle those needs that are unfulfilled and put them in a box and pretend that they aren't there... or if they are safe needs... like watching soppy, romantic comedies, you find friends who will join you in that (depending on how possessive/jealous your partner is).<br /><br />With poly I can go and get all my needs and desires filled. I can find the people who fit around me like the hexagonal puzzle piece I am and get my needs met. And in doing so I can be challenged and challenge myself into growing, learning and filling my potential.<br /><br />One of the brightest things about poly that I have experienced over the past few years is that the love is multiplied and the pain diminished. Yes there is pain... just like there is in monogamy when partners clash or misunderstand each other... but with the extra love and support from poly friends, family and partners, the pain is lessened.<br /><br />The other thing about poly is that its all about positive choice. I don't have to be asked to choose between two people I'm attracted to/love (and if I am I get very cranky) and I don't need to ask anyone to choose between me and someone/s else. I don't have to consider which partner, friend, lover, whatever I prefer over someone else. I can have it all, provided I am considerate, communicate clearly and am patient/understanding/accepting of my partner's potential jealousy or whatever.<br /><br />So, in summary.... poly gives me the ability to love as much as I can, the knowledge that I am loved in return, the knowledge that I am never truly alone, the ability to have all my needs and desires met should I seek to do that and positive choice.<br /><br />Of course I'm poly... it makes perfect sense to me.Rebeccahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10649422909281161545noreply@blogger.com2